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From Doubter to Believer

James the brother of Jesus

2007-12-02

PRODUCTION #: 1132

SPEAKER: Shawn Boonstra

GUEST: Dick Stenbakken

You know, as much as I used to wish for one as a little kid, there really isn’t any such thing as a time machine. But just for a moment, let’s pretend it’s real, that you really could go back in time, and that we had some sort of a machine that would let us visit the ancient biblical past. Now, out of all the people in the Bible, who would you visit? What would you ask them? If you had the opportunity to sit down and ask some questions, what would you say?

I know that the possibility of time travel is nothing more than science fiction. But if you could travel back in time, who would you want to visit from the pages of the Bible? Retired Army Colonel and Chaplain, Richard Stenbakken, also happens to be a dedicated preacher who has an unusual and amazing gift for portraying characters from the Bible. And today he’s going to help us meet the Apostle James, who created quite a stir a few years ago when they unearthed an ancient bone box with his name actually engraved on the side.

Now, James is one of the apostles I’d most like to meet, because he actually had a more intimate relationship with Jesus from the fact that he grew up along with Him in the house of Mary and Joseph. And so today I’m absolutely thrilled to have the Apostle James on It is Written.

APOSTLE JAMES (Richard Stenbakken): Well, I’m glad to be here.

SHAWN BOONSTRA: Well, James, it’s of special interest to have you on the program with me today because personally, whether you know it or not, I’ve spent a lot of time studying your life. You are of great interest to me. I’ve asked myself a lot of questions about you because, after all, you grew up in a house with Jesus of Nazareth. How good does it get?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, I have to tell you, when I was a child and a young person, I didn’t like it at all.

SHAWN: How can you say that? I mean, you have Jesus of Nazareth in your house. I can’t think of a bigger honor than having Jesus there.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, not me, and not then. I saw it as He was just purely a problem.

SHAWN: A problem? You are calling Jesus a problem? James, today the whole world revolves around Jesus, so I know a lot of people are going to wonder why would you call Jesus a problem. I mean, He came to this world to solve problems, not to be one.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, Shawn, I know that now. I guess I saw Jesus as a problem because I was the oldest boy in the family. And to me came the birthright, to me was the name of the family; I was to carry on the heritage of the family, and it felt like He was always the center of attention and I was pushed to the side, and I just did not like it.

SHAWN: Now, let me interrupt for a moment, because you said that you were the oldest in the house. For some people watching today, they’ve never even given thought to the fact that Jesus would have brothers at all, and some who have thought about Jesus and His family wouldn’t have thought of you as the oldest. I mean, for a point in my life, I would have thought of you as the youngest brother. How is it that you are the oldest?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, Shawn, look at the record. I mean, there were times when I came to Jesus to tell Him how to live His life. I was the one who came and told Him what to do. I tried to control Him. Now, in our culture, no younger brother would dare to do that to an older brother. The older brother is the one who steps in for the father and controls the family.

SHAWN: Tell me, now, how does Jesus fit into the family?

APOSTLE JAMES: How does Jesus fit into the family? That’s what I struggled with for a long, long time. In fact, that was my struggle in life, to figure out—you see, mother died.

SHAWN: Now, wait a minute. You say mother died. You mean Mary?

APOSTLE JAMES: No, no, no, no, my birth mother.

SHAWN: Uh huh.

APOSTLE JAMES: And father was so upset. He was just devastated. And all his children were, too. And he was just torn to pieces. And then he met this lovely young lady. He described her to us. Her name was Mary. And he said that he was going to become engaged to her and he would marry her. Well, I’ll tell you, we didn’t want another mother. We didn’t want a new mother. We resisted that.

SHAWN: Did it stay that way?

APOSTLE JAMES: No, it didn’t. Because what happened, see—Mary was of the House of David, also, in the lineage of David.

SHAWN: Good family.

APOSTLE JAMES: Yes. And, in fact, she was so learned, she could read. Now, a lot of women in my era couldn’t read. But she could read and she knew the scrolls. Part of her family was Zechariah, the high priest, and Elizabeth. And Mary started to tell us stories from the scrolls. And as she did, she made them so alive, and we all came to love her just as much as father did, and we were very happy. But then things really, really got bad.

SHAWN: How does it get bad? She sounds like a wonderful stepmother to you. It sounds like it’s a great situation given what you’ve been through. How does Mary become a problem?

APOSTLE JAMES: It was obvious she was pregnant. Now, when they were espoused, when they were committed to each other, it was the same as being married except they could not live together. And let me tell you for sure, Shawn, I know that father was never, ever alone with her before they were married. So, he couldn’t be the father.

SHAWN: Right.

APOSTLE JAMES: And if he wasn’t the father, and she had broken the marriage vows, the village could—they wanted—to stone her. They wanted to kill her.

SHAWN: What was your dad’s first reaction?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, he was upset. He was puzzled, and then he told us that an angel, an angel from God had come to him, and said that he should marry her.

SHAWN: Now, had that been his plan up until that moment?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, he struggled with that. I mean, he didn’t know what to do. I mean here is somebody he loves and she’s pregnant and he knows—and everybody in the family knows—that it wasn’t him.

SHAWN: Right.

APOSTLE JAMES: So, he thought, maybe he would just quietly break the arrangement and they could go their separate ways. But her life was threatened, and he stepped in and he said, “An angel of God has told me to marry her, and I will do it.”

SHAWN: Now, how did the village react to that decision?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, the village and the rest of the family weren’t particularly happy, but father said, “if that’s what God wants me to do, then that’s what I’ll do.” And he did.

SHAWN: So, your father is a brave man.

APOSTLE JAMES: Oh, he’s a brave man, a good man. But then it got even more difficult because he had to go to Bethlehem to be taxed. And there was so much tension in the village that he couldn’t, even though she was expecting anytime, he couldn’t leave her there.

SHAWN: Right.

APOSTLE JAMES: And so they went to Bethlehem and I was upset because I wanted to go, but they said, “No, you stay with the rest of them.”

SHAWN: I noticed, as I’ve read the record of what happened with your family, that you are not in that story.

APOSTLE JAMES: You see, that’s the problem. I’m not in a lot of the stories, and I thought I should be because I’m the oldest. You see, here’s this Jesus, before He’s even born, He’s making changes in my life, and He’s not even born yet.

SHAWN: Now, James, I can agree with you 100 percent there. I know from personal experience, all these years later, that Jesus can change your life.

APOSTLE JAMES: But, Shawn, see, change isn’t comfortable, and I didn’t want to change. After Jesus was born, father said to us, “An angel has appeared to me again and we have to move to Egypt.”

SHAWN: To Egypt?

APOSTLE JAMES: Egypt. I didn’t want to go to Egypt.

SHAWN: Right.

APOSTLE JAMES: I mean I don’t speak Egyptian. I don’t like their food. I don’t want to go to Egypt. I have friends here. And father said, “No, we’re going to Egypt, because of Jesus.”

SHAWN: So, little brother, the whole family has to move?

APOSTLE JAMES: Because of Him. Then, when I get comfortable in Egypt, and I kind of like it there and make friends and get used to the food, and all that stuff, then father says, “The angel has spoken to me again. We have to go back to our own land.” I was upset at Jesus. I didn’t want Him messing with my life and it seemed like He was the center of everything, and I was nothing. I couldn’t compete.

SHAWN: James, I have two brothers, myself. I’m the oldest of those three brothers, and to me it sounds like this is a bit of a case of sibling rivalry.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, rivalry would be a kind way to put it. I was just so upset, I was just so angry, I didn’t want to have anything to do with Him, nothing, nothing at all. And then it got worse.

SHAWN: How did things get worse than that? I mean, you were already angry with your little brother. You’ve had to move to another country. There’s been doubt cast on your mother’s character. It sounds pretty bad. How does it get worse?

APOSTLE JAMES: He started teaching and preaching, and some people said that He was the Messiah. I don’t know. It was awful. And then, on top of all of that, father died.

SHAWN: Now, I’ve always noticed that Joseph is there in the beginning of the recorded story that we have of your family, and then Joseph is gone. He’s just gone from the story.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, he’s gone from the story because he died, and do you know what that meant? That meant that all of us had to pull together. All of us had to run the shop. All of us had to work together to get things done. And just at that time, just at that time Jesus says, “I’m going to go, and I’m going to teach, and I’m going, too. And when we needed Him to be home, He left. And that really made me mad.

SHAWN: So Jesus has gone to teach and to preach, and what He called doing His “father’s business,” and people are saying your brother is the Messiah. It has to be obvious to you at this point. Your dad said it was true. Your mom said it was true. The angels made the announcement. John the Baptist shows up on the scene and he starts matching your brother to the prophecies of the Bible. It has to be obvious to you that Jesus is the Messiah.

APOSTLE JAMES: But, don’t you see, my emotions overtook that. Yes, I heard the things He said. But, you see, it just entrenched me even more because I was out of focus with everybody. It was Him, it was Him, it was Him, and I didn’t want to have anything to do with it. Nothing.

SHAWN: Uh, huh. So, in your heart you are telling yourself you are going to follow Him…or no?

APOSTLE JAMES: I said I would never follow Him. I would never believe in Him. I would never have anything to do with Him. I rejected Him totally.

SHAWN: Now, I have trouble believing that, James, because you’ve done a little writing and it’s survived the centuries. And I’ve been reading what you wrote, and it says a lot in your letter about following Jesus.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, like I said, Jesus changes people. And I resisted that. I fought that. I didn’t want that. I didn’t want anything to do with Him. But He changes people. He changes lives. It almost took a miracle to do that for me.

SHAWN: You know, you’ve mentioned and the Bible makes reference to the fact that you even mocked Jesus. You made fun of Him?

APOSTLE JAMES: Oh, yes. At Cana, there was a family wedding, and we were all there. And Mary went, see, and they ran out of drink. And that was a terrible thing because, I mean, you couldn’t do that.

SHAWN: Just embarrassing.

APOSTLE JAMES: And Jesus was asked to help out, and He did. And there was a miracle. But then, you know, later on…

SHAWN: Uh, huh.

APOSTLE JAMES: Later on I mocked Jesus. I mocked Him.

SHAWN: You actually mocked Him?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, you see, being a Torah true family, we went down to Jerusalem for the feast. All of us, the whole family. You may have heard of that.

SHAWN: Uh, huh. I recall this story. It’s found in John, chapter seven, I think it is, and it was the Feast of Tabernacles, verse three in John seven (John 7:3-5):

“His brothers, therefore, said to Him, ‘Depart from here and go to Judea that your disciples also may see the works that you are doing. For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.’ For even his brothers did not believe in him.”

Does that ring a bell?

APOSTLE JAMES: Sure, because what I said to Him was, “If you are who you say you are, if you are the Messiah like people say you are, then come on down to Jerusalem and show yourself. And let everybody see who you are.” And you see, I mocked Him.

SHAWN: And what did Jesus say?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, first He said He wouldn’t go with us. And He didn’t, but then He went down by Himself. And He did reveal Himself. But see, I was so stubborn, so hardhearted, I just wouldn’t allow myself to believe. I would not bend.

SHAWN: But surely, James, there was a pile of evidence there. I mean, what about the times you hear about Him healing people, you hear about Him casting out demons, and so on? Surely there’s enough evidence there for you to bend, to come around.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, it didn’t work that way. When He was doing these things, we went down to where He was…to restrain him.

SHAWN: Uh, huh. Really?

APOSTLE JAMES: Now, that’s kind of a polite way to say we wanted to control Him.

SHAWN: Right.

APOSTLE JAMES: See, we were wanting to control Jesus. And when we came to the place where He was, there were crowds. You couldn’t get in, and I sent word in that his brothers and Mary were outside. His family was outside and we wanted to talk to Him. I was going to set it straight.

SHAWN: Yeah.

APOSTLE JAMES: And do you know what Jesus said? Jesus said, “These people are my family. These people who believe in me, they are my brothers, and my sisters, and my mother.” And I was furious.

SHAWN: So, you are saying as Jesus began His ministry, you weren’t involved, even after all the miracles, the feeding of 5,000 at one time…?

APOSTLE JAMES: You see, I was so stubborn. I was so angry. Jesus feeding the 5,000? Hey, I’m working my fingers to the bone trying to feed my family, and the family, and Jesus is giving food to people who are not family, and I said I would never, ever believe, never follow.

SHAWN: So you had some pretty hard feelings?

APOSTLE JAMES: Absolutely. Anger overtook me. And I just refused to believe.

SHAWN: Now, you’ve mentioned to me before that things even went further downhill than that, James. How does it get worse than that?

APOSTLE JAMES: The teachers of the law, the Rabbis, the high priest, they were upset at Jesus because it was being voiced around that He was the Messiah. And they didn’t like it. It became even more personal, I think, to them than to me, and they opposed Him. They sent spies to spy on Him. And eventually they turned Him over to the Romans.

SHAWN: What does that do for your family?

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, the Romans were planning to crucify Him. But, Shawn, I don’t know if you understand about crucifixion but, you see, first of all, to be turned over by the religious people to the Romans…the Romans are hated…and to be exposed on a cross? The Scriptures say that the one who is exposed like that is cursed of God. And you see, that was a shame for the family, a shame for me. It was a shame for us.

SHAWN: How is it a shame?

APOSTLE JAMES: Our culture was permeated with two values, shame on one side and honor on the other. And if you don’t bring honor to your family, you bring shame to your family. And Jesus was bringing shame on us. At least that’s how I saw it.

SHAWN: James, your mom was there, though. Your mom was at the crucifixion and she believed. Couldn’t you bring yourself to believe at that point?

APOSTLE JAMES: No, I couldn’t. I couldn’t. I wouldn’t. Hardhearted, stubborn pride.

SHAWN: You were there, though.

APOSTLE JAMES: For the crucifixion?

SHAWN: Yes.

APOSTLE JAMES: Yes, I was there. I’m not proud of it. I hung back in the crowd. I tried to be, I tried to be invisible. I didn’t want to be known as His brother. In fact, I was so ashamed, so ashamed of Him, it was my insistence that we not even claim the body.

SHAWN: James, not getting the body, that seems a little...

APOSTLE JAMES: Ugly, yes, I know. Ugly. But, you see, I just didn’t want to have anything to do with Him. We brothers, we just, we just walked away and Mary stayed there with the disciples. You remember what Jesus did on the cross?

SHAWN: Yeah.

APOSTLE JAMES: To whom did He show compassion for Mary? He didn’t give Mary to us to take care of, but to John. That’s how much we had split the family.

SHAWN: James, I’ve read your letter and something changed you. You don’t feel the same way today. As a matter of fact, as I study what the Bible says, you actually became a leader in the Christian community. You chaired that first big council, church council, in the city of Jerusalem. So, how does that happen? It seems like a miracle to me.

APOSTLE JAMES: Well, it was practically a miracle. You see, I’d heard Jesus. What He said made sense. But my own stubbornness got in the way. It wouldn’t allow that, and so I just continued rejecting and walking away.

SHAWN: So what changed you?

APOSTLE JAMES: Jesus changed me, Shawn. Jesus changes everybody. You see, after His death, Jesus appeared personally and privately to me. After I had mocked Him, after I had walked away from Him, after I had shamed Him, He forgave me. He reached out with love and forgiveness to me.

SHAWN: James, we’ve really talked a lot about what it’s like to grow up alongside Jesus, what it’s like to resist Jesus. I just want to, as this show is running out of time. I just wish we could spend hours together. But, I want to turn to the actual letter that you wrote, James, chapter one, right here. You, of course, wouldn’t remember chapters, because we did that to your letter later. But James, it says, you start by signing your name James, a servant of God and of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Now that’s in my language, servant of God. You didn’t write this in English. You’ve been changed. I want you to tell me how you’ve been changed.

APOSTLE JAMES: I allowed Jesus to be who He is rather than trying to make Him what I wanted Him to be. I allowed His words to come into my life. I allowed His forgiveness to warm my soul. I allowed His truth from the Old Testament scrolls to speak to me. And, Shawn, now I’m a servant. I’m a servant of Jesus. See, I used to build things. And now, through the grace of Jesus, I build believers.

SHAWN: Somebody reading this today, James, looks at Jesus. Here’s a man who died on a cross. He lived thousands of years ago in this day. You know, in their way of thinking, they don’t understand, perhaps, that He’s alive. And they feel too big for Jesus. What do you want to say to them?

APOSTLE JAMES: I’ve been there. And the fact is that no one is too big for Jesus. In fact, Shawn, see, me being in the same family with Him doesn’t give me any advantage. In fact, it was almost a disadvantage because of myself. But, you see, you are His brother. He’s your brother. Believers are brothers. He was right. We are all family. It doesn’t matter who we are, where we come from. As we believe in Jesus, we are all lifted up together, and we follow what He teaches us, and that’s what makes us valuable.

SHAWN: James, I’m glad you were faithful to Christ. And I’m thankful that you had time to join us on It Is Written today.

APOSTLE JAMES: Oh, thank you. And I hope that others, others will come to see Him as their brother, too, because He is our Lord, our Savior, and our brother.

SHAWN: The story of James, as you find it scattered throughout the Bible, is one of the most riveting accounts of a change of heart ever written. And that’s what makes it important to you. Let me ask you something personal right now. Do you find Christianity a little distasteful? Do you struggle when you see the claims of the Bible? Do you sense in your heart that Jesus is everything that He claims to be, but you are not sure you can follow like He’s asking?

Let me point out something you should probably know. James was just like you, but he went on to accomplish huge things for the kingdom of God. In fact, God made him a leader in the early Christian church, and He can do that kind of thing with your life, too. But it’s going to take admitting to the claims of Jesus. It’s going to take a private meeting with Him right now. And it’s going to take offering your life to Him as a gift for what He did for you. And it’s going to take becoming a servant of God.

Right now, as you consider the cross of Christ, ask yourself this question: What reason could you possibly have for not accepting Him now? I’d like to take this moment and pray with you. So let’s bow our heads.

PRAYER:
Father in Heaven, as we look at Jesus Christ, something stirs in our hearts to tell us He’s not like everyone else. This is God’s son. And as He hangs on the Cross of Calvary, He’s doing it to save us for the kingdom of Christ. We know He’s calling us, and today somebody may be struggling with that call.

Give us the power and the wisdom today to say “yes” to Jesus. And may joy and gratitude follow Him, as both His brother and as His servant. Gracious father, we know where that path leads. It leads right into the kingdom of heaven. And I ask that you would bless those who are praying a prayer, accepting Jesus today. For I ask it in Jesus’ name, Amen.

To learn more about Dick Stenbakken and his DVD series, please visit www.dickstenbakken.com

Scriptures Used in “From Doubter to Believer”

“His brothers, therefore, said to Him, ‘Depart from here and go to Judea that your disciples also may see the works that you are doing. For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.’ For even his brothers did not believe in him.”
—John 7:3-5