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Veterans Day: A Christian in Uniform

2007-11-11

PRODUCTION #: 1131

SPEAKER: Shawn Boonstra

GUEST: Dick Stenbakken

This is a special time of year set aside to honor those who are willing to lay their lives on the line for the good of their country—those men and women who put on a uniform and take the ultimate risk so that you and I can live in the safety and comfort we take for granted every day of our lives. Today on It Is Written, I have a special guest who is going to talk to us about what it means to follow Jesus while wearing a uniform. So, stick around.

You know, I seem to have been born just late enough to miss Vietnam and early enough to have also missed the first Gulf War. And so, on those special occasions when we honor those in uniform, I have to listen more than I speak if I really want to grasp what it means to take ultimate risks and make ultimate sacrifices for the good of others. Almost 2,000 years ago, Jesus said in John, chapter 15 (John 15:3):

“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”

And today, we still sense that there’s something special about someone who is willing to put themselves aside to make life better for someone else. I’m delighted that today my guest is a Christian in uniform, my good friend, Dr. Richard Stenbakken, who is a retired Army Colonel and a devoted follower of Jesus Christ. Richard, it’s just really good to have you on the program today.

RS (Richard Stenbakken): Good to be here, Shawn.

SB (Shawn Boonstra): Today, Dick, you are on the program as a man in uniform, and that uniform represents a very large institution. It represents a certain function in Western society, and so when I look at you in your uniform, it’s easy for me to forget that there’s a human being inside that uniform. So, before I get into your role in the US Army, I want you to tell me a little bit about Dick Stenbakken.

RS: I’m a very lucky man. I’ve been married to the same wife for 45 years and have two adult children, a marvelous career being a chaplain in the military, and have finished four master degrees and a doctorate.

SB: So you were a minister primarily in your earlier career?

RS: Yes. I pastored and went directly from pastoring into active duty as a military chaplain.

SB: Now, tell me a little bit about the Army. I’m going to come back to being a military chaplain in a moment, but how do you end up in the Army? I mean is this a choice that you made? Were you drafted? How did you end up there?

RS: When I was pastoring, there was a young man in our congregation—now this was up in Wyoming—so it was a small group of people; and he decided he wanted to see the world, and so he joined the military and was shipped off to Vietnam.

And so, as his pastor, I wrote back and forth to him, and—tragically—he was killed there; and because of that I just felt that I really had something that I wanted to be able to offer to young men and women who were serving. And so, when my church headquarters contacted me and said, “You have the requirements to enter active duty. Would you be willing to do that?” I said, “Yes, I would,” after a lot of prayer.

SB: As you thought about this decision, what did you feel that God wanted you to offer these young men and women?

RS: Hope, reality, what’s in the Word. And I just felt drawn to that kind of ministry, and when the door opened, I said, “Well, let me give it a try and if the Lord leads me there and wants me there, that’s where I’ll serve.”

SB: How long did you serve?

RS: Just short of 24 years.

SB: Twenty-four years. Tell me a little bit about where you served.

RS: This is our 15th move, so I’ve served everywhere in the military from working with basic trainees—young people who were drafted during Vietnam—who were not really wanting to be where they were. I’ve served at that level all the way up to the Chief of Chaplains office. I was the 4th Infantry Division chaplain at Ft. Carson, Family Life Chaplain, directing all the family life ministries for the Army chaplaincy, a variety of assignments, and geographical areas such as Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Colorado and Missouri.

SB: Now, you have mentioned the word chaplain a number of times. That is how you have served in the Army?

RS: Oh yes.

SB: How do you become a chaplain? How does one go down that path?

RS: Well, first of all, you have to have a 120-hour undergraduate degree, and you have to have at least a 72-hour graduate degree in theological studies or allied kinds of things. Plus, you have to have two years of practical ministry experience. You have to meet height and weight standards, pass a security check, then you have to be endorsed by the religious agency that you represent.

SB: So, you can’t just get the degree and walk into the recruitment office and say, “Here I am, your next chaplain?”

RS: No, you can’t say, “Hey, I like Army green. I think I’d look good in that.” It’s not that way. You are basically on loan from your religious organization. The religious organization has control by endorsement and also then by credentialing. So any religious organization can bring names to the military. And if the military has a need, then you go in as a cooperative venture between your religious organization and the military.

SB: So you come in with the recommendation of your church. Can your church then pull you back out?

RS: Yes, indeed. And for about 14 years I served as an endorser, that person who does bring people on active duty and unfortunately, sometimes has to say, “You’re not walking the walk and so we have to pull you out.”

SB: Now, Dick, I know that for a lot of people watching today, a chaplain is Father Mulcahy on MASH, and they really don’t know what a chaplain does. So, let’s assume right now, it’s Wednesday morning. What hour did you get up, 0500? The chaplain’s day begins. What do you do? I mean, is it an administrative function? Are you a monk? Do you retire to a tent somewhere and study all day? What does a chaplain do?

RS: Well, there’s no such thing as a normal day. I mean, every day is unique, and it depends on the assignment that you have. Sometimes you are up all night doing ministry. Sometimes you are up in the middle of the night. Sometimes you start with, well, some of my most interesting memories are doing physical training, push-ups and sit-ups at 6 o’clock in the morning in Alaska at 20 below.

SB: (Laughter) Now I’ve been up there. That’s really cold to be doing sit-ups.

RS: You are there doing ministry and it depends on the kind of assignment you have. You may be working with basic trainees. You may be working with people in the field. Chaplains go to the field. You may be preparing sermons. You may be doing a memorial, or a funeral, or a wedding. You may be doing administrative things, taking care of the chapel needs in terms of finances. It’s the whole panoply of ministry. You may be doing hospital ministry.

SB: Now, you know, in that kind of an atmosphere, particularly in combat or during times of war, it’s really life on the edge. You are dealing with a lot of things. In the course of 24 years as a military chaplain, you must have seen some things or experienced some things that really stick out in your memory.

RS: Lots of them, but one of the most favorite and memorable to me was in Vietnam. I mean, we were in a combat zone. I was a fairly young chaplain, and I went into my office Saturday night looking over, going over, my materials for the worship service coming up, and I walked into my office. Pitch black.

SB: Right.

RS: And I knew there was somebody in my office, which really shouldn’t have been. I flipped on the light switch and in the corner was this young man, cowering, and his eyes are the size of saucers, and he was more frightened than I was. And he said, “Chaplain, I’m glad it’s you. I think I’ve just seen the devil.”

SB: Now this is in a combat situation. This is in Vietnam?

RS: Yes, it is. When he said, “I think I’ve seen the devil,” I, for a split second, wanted to look over my shoulder just in case. But this young man had been involved using a lot of drugs.

SB: Right.

RS: And he had, in fact, I think, been in touch with the devil, and he was really deeply troubled. Well, we sat down together. I shared some things out of God’s Word with him.

SB: Tell me, what would you share with a young man like that? What is it in this book that you are going to share with a fellow like that?

RS: Well, I thought maybe I’d start with something that he’s at least somewhat familiar with, so I turned to the 23rd Psalm, you know, and started right there with the fact that the Lord is the one who leads us. The Lord is the one who is with us. The Lord walks with us through whatever situation we have; and I unpacked some things in the New Testament, in the Gospels, about Christ giving us strength to do whatever we needed to do. And we spent quite a little bit of time that night together and he calmed down. And then, before he left, he said, “Chaplain, would you give me a Bible?”

So, I always kept a small pocket Bible in my pocket and I gave it to him and he thanked me. We had prayer and he went on his way. And about three days later I saw him walking through the area and he said, “Chaplain, chaplain, do you have a Bible? I need a Bible.” And I’m thinking, okay, maybe he’s still coming down from some of his drugs. So, I gave him another Bible because I’d replaced that one.

SB: (Laughter)

RS: I saw him two days later. He asked for another Bible.

SB: This is the third one?

RS: This is the third one. He asked for a fourth one, and he was in a hurry that time. He said, “I can’t stay and talk to you. I just need another Bible.” So off he went, and a couple days later one of the guys came to me and he said, “What happened to Marty?” This was the guy’s name. I said, “What do you mean? What happened?” I mean, in a combat zone when somebody says, “What happened…”

SB: It could mean a million things.

RS: Exactly. And so I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Chaplain, he has changed. He has changed so much. He used to be the meanest, ugliest guy, and we were kind of teasing him the other day. We said “There goes Marty the preacher.”

SB: They were already teasing him about what he was experiencing as a newborn Christian.

RS: Right. Well, he was newborn, but he was still working with the old ways. This young man told me that Marty came up, grabbed him by his shirt, pulled him right up to his nose, took a Bible out, he said, “See this book? Read it, or I’ll rearrange your face.”

SB: (Laughter) That’s one way of spreading the Gospel.

RS: We had to talk about more gentle ways of witnessing, but people saw a change in this guy. He used to be the biggest, roughest, toughest doper in the unit. But he began to read God’s Word, and found that He had something better to live for, and it changed his life. I mean, I saw it and other people around us saw it as well.

SB: You know, Dick, it’s often been said there are no atheists in foxholes. It’s been said so often it’s become something of a cliché. Talk to me a little bit. Tell us a little bit about the issues that young people face in a combat zone. Is this accurate? There are no atheists in foxholes? What are people dealing with in that lifestyle in those situations?

RS: That’s a good quote from Ernie Pyle from World War II. And people in combat situations, Shawn, you are facing your imminent death. Not something potential or maybe someone else. I mean, you are going out in that Humvee in Iraq, or Vietnam on the road, and you don’t know if today will be your last day. And suddenly those things of eternal value take on a whole different perspective. I mean, I remember writing a 10-page letter to my wife and children.

SB: Right.

RS: And on the envelope saying that this should be delivered only if I am killed or missing in action.

SB: Unbelievable.

RS: And when you have to do that, it puts a lot of things in perspective. And so these young people, they are facing things like they’ve never faced before. Training is one thing.

SB: Right.

RS: Reality is a deeper thing. So, people begin to explore more deeply what to believe, what they believe, if they should believe. There’s a lot of searching and that’s why chaplains are there is to help that.

SB: So, a lot of them are really finding the set of priorities that many people wait, until they are in their 70s or 80s to develop?

RS: That’s true.

SB: They are developing them now in their 20s and 30s. Tell me a little bit more about life in the field, because I suspect there’s more than just mortality that these young people are dealing with. If five guys go out in a Humvee in the morning and only four come home, what are those four dealing with?

RS: Well, there are terms for that called “survivor grief” and “survivor guilt.” People ask themselves “Why was this guy killed and I’m still alive?” plus all the other grief. Because there’s a unity that comes when your life depends on me and my life depends on you; there’s a friendship and a bond. Well, the Bible talks about that.

SB: Yes.

RS: Where David and Jonathan, their souls were knit together.

SB: Right.

RS: And when someone is ripped out like that, there’s a tremendous amount of grief. And these young people are seeing things that they shouldn’t ever have to see, and experiencing things they never should have to experience.

SB: What are you going to say to them? I mean, what do you do when they’ve just come in off the field and one of them is gone?

RS: Well, I gave up trying to be the Holy Spirit. I gave up trying to defend God because that’s not my job. I do a lot of listening. Let the people vent. Remember when Jesus was on the road to Emmaus with the people?

SB: Yes.

RS: He did a lot of listening before he unpacked what they needed to hear. So, as a chaplain you do a lot of listening, and then you come in with God’s Word to help them beyond where they are, work them through the grief.

SB: You know, Dick, I wish our program were a lot longer, but today, while I’ve got you here, I want to ask you a few sticky questions, things that I know some people are thinking about, because as some Christians go through the Bible, well, many Christians come to different conclusions about military service and being a Christian and so on. Some Christians come to the conclusion that they are not going to carry a weapon and they are not going to shoot someone. And how does the Army deal with something like that, and as a chaplain what is your role?

RS: Well, let’s say, for instance, you came in. You enlisted, because now in the US military everyone joins. You are not drafted and you have a change in the way you see things. You came in saying, “You know, go get them.” And you come to a deeply held personal religious conviction that you can’t do that.

SB: Right.

RS: My task, as a chaplain, is to really help you look at that to see whether you are having a real conscience issue, or whether you just don’t want to deploy.

If it’s a deeply held conscience issue, then I help you walk through the military system so that you might either find a noncombatant position, or if that’s not possible, that you exit the military.

SB: Right. And many of these Christians are willing to take the same risks as others. They are willing to be front-line, serve as a medic, and so on.

RS: Absolutely.

SB: But they have trouble doing it, when it comes down to the moment when they have to decide whether or not to take somebody’s life. And that’s obviously an issue we can’t unpack in a short program like this. One other one that I want you to give me a comment on is that there is one branch of Christianity that says, “Look, the things that belong to God belong to God. The things that belong to Caesar belong to Caesar.” What are you doing as a minister working for the state?

RS: A very good question. But the reality is that when I took an oath of office, raised my right hand and said that I swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I’m not swearing allegiance to a president or to a party. I’m saying that I am there to uphold the Constitution, which guarantees freedom of worship—non-establishment—that one religion will not become dominant over another, that everyone can worship according to their dictates and conscience. As a civilian pastor, what would you do in a military unit? I mean, you can’t go to Iraq.

SB: No. I’m not allowed to go, and if I go, I’m going on my own.

RS: And, in fact, you would be a liability, because then people would have to protect you instead of looking out for their own safety.

SB: Right.

RS: Interestingly enough, the Chaplaincy in the military began in July of 1775, almost a full year before the Declaration of Independence.

SB: That’s interesting. I actually didn’t know that.

RS: The founding fathers said we need to have spiritual support for military people; and that really supports the Constitution, because I am in the military either to provide, or to provide for worship, as the people define it. Now, what that means is, I don’t do a Roman Catholic service, or a Buddhist service. That’s not in my lane.

SB: Right.

RS: But if you come to me as a believer from another faith background, it’s my responsibility to help you get the spiritual help you need. If I can’t provide it, I help you get to where you can meet that.

SB: Now, there’s something I want to touch on. I know we are running out of time. So, quickly today, oftentimes a comparison is made between the military life and the Christian life. And I’m wondering, as a chaplain, if you could comment on that in just the few moments that we have left.

RS: Oh, you bet. It is written right here. Paul talks about the Christian armor and working together as a team. See, we have a saying in the military, “Lone rangers come back in body bags.”

SB: Right.

RS: You can’t do it on your own. I can’t be a Christian on my own. I need help. I need support. I need to put on the whole armor. There are a lot of parallels. I think Paul had a background in the military somewhere. We can unpack that later. But he uses military illustrations a lot, and I think, as he said to Timothy, “endure hardship like a good soldier.” There are a lot of things that the military can teach people about being a Christian.

SB: Dick, I can clearly see the parallels between Christian service for Christ in the church, and serving in the Army, even though that’s something I’ve actually never done. Today, just before we came on the program, you showed me a coin that you carry with you. Please tell me what’s on this coin and why this is important.

RS: Well, it’s on the coin. It’s also on my dog tags. I usually wear these when I travel, and of course, I wore them in combat. The Army values, I’ll just go down the list: loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal courage. I think those are marvelous descriptors of what a follower of Christ should be. We need to be loyal to Him. We need to do our duty, show respect for Him, and for other people, and just right down the line. Honor, integrity, personal courage, that’s what makes up the backbone, I think, of a Christian, as well as a military person.

SB: As I look at this, I mean, any pastor would be delighted to have a congregation full of people who had these values, who had these benchmarks for their character. You also pointed out something very interesting to me with respect to these words: loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal courage. It stands for something.

RS: If you go down those first letters, it says leadership. And I think by just a slight rearrangement and adding one letter, it would be a lordship, and we add obedience to all of these and I think that is a good reminder of who I need to be as a person. Not only as a person in uniform, but as a person who stands for Jesus Christ.

SB: We only have a moment left, but some parent out there watching or reading this today has a child in Iraq. As a chaplain, what’s your word to that parent?

RS: Keep in touch, listen, pray, support, and put them in the hands of God, and contact the chaplain if you have a concern. That’s why chaplains are there.

SB: So they also operate as an intermediary?

RS: Absolutely.

SB: Dick, it’s been a delight to have you on the program. There are so many things we could have talked about today, and we picked at some issues that we could have spent a whole program on, but I am so grateful you are going to be joining us again on the program in future episodes. Because in addition to being an Army chaplain, you have a remarkable gift for stepping into the character of Bible characters, and you are going to do some of that with us on future shows. But for today, at this special time when we honor those in uniform, I’m delighted that you are a part of It Is Written. Thanks so much, Dick.

RS: Thank you. It’s been my pleasure.

SB: Now, here’s my challenge for you. As you’ve been thinking about some of the issues we’ve raised on the program today, you may or may not have seen real combat. You may or may not have spent actual time in the military. But, according to the pages of the Bible, there’s a real war going on all around you, and the consequences of the decisions you make today are going to last for all eternity. How are you going to relate to the church, the army of God? How do you fit into the massive conflict between good and evil that’s raging in this world? And are your loyalties and allegiances clear?

Now, remember, in the battle for this world, there are no neutral parties. Jesus actually said that those who are not for Him are against Him, and that means you fall into one camp or the other. And right now the Prince of Peace, the man who took the brunt of the war on His shoulders at the Cross of Calvary, is calling you to a life of service for the kingdom of God, and He’s waiting for your answer.

Dick, there are a lot of people who have children overseas who are in combat zones, and I’d like to close the program with a prayer. And I’m wondering, as a chaplain, if you would pray for those families right now that are suffering some anxiety and for those who are in these combat zones. Would you pray with us?

RS: Certainly.

PRAYER:

Father, we raise our voice to you and asked that you will be our leader, our commander, and help the Prince of Peace to enter in, not only to this world, but to every heart. In a special way, bless those families and those members who face terrible situations. Father, bless them with your love, your protecting care, and may the Prince of Peace soon come to this world to bring peace that nothing else can bring. In the name of Christ our Lord, amen.

SB: Amen.

To learn more about Dick Stenbakken and his DVD series, please visit www.dickstenbakken.com

Scriptures Used in “Veterans Day: A Christian in Uniform”

“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”
—John 15:3